Vaughn Harber & Coach Jay Moseley

00:00:24:13 - 00:00:52:07

Steve Kennedy

Welcome to the latest edition of VERSED, powered by VIUM Capital. I'm your host, Steve Kennedy, and this is a little bit of a different one. We are usually in an office or maybe a studio, but we're outside with VIUM Vaughn, Vaughn Harber, and Coach Jay Moseley. As some of you know, Coach Jay Moseley of the Ohio State men's golf team has been the coach there for over a decade and has had quite the run.

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00:00:52:07 - 00:01:21:20

Steve Kennedy

Vaughn Harber just finished his sophomore year at Ohio State and was one of the 20 amateurs who qualified for the U.S. Open. He is just coming off Shinnecock and is going to be playing in the U.S. Amateur at Merion in August. Before going into that experience at the U.S. Open and the Ohio State golf program, I thought I'd set the scene a little bit.

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00:01:21:21 - 00:01:44:17

Steve Kennedy

We're at Scioto Country Club. Vaughn Harber has been a caddie at Scioto Country Club, and we are hosting the U.S. Senior Open right now. It's the 46th U.S. Senior Open, and it's being hosted as part of the 100-year anniversary of Bobby Jones winning a U.S. Open at Scioto, so it's been a great event so far.

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00:01:44:18 - 00:01:59:12

Steve Kennedy

This is Thursday, the first day of play. It's hot, but I think everybody has enjoyed it so far. With that long-winded preamble, let me thank Coach Moseley and Vaughn for being here. I appreciate it.

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00:01:59:14 - 00:02:00:15

Vaughn Harber

Thank you for having us.

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00:02:00:19 - 00:02:13:18

Steve Kennedy

All right, we've got to jump into it. Vaughn, I refer to you as “VIUM Vaughn” because one of our colleagues, Steve Munn, immediately coined that term, and it went viral within the halls of VIUM Capital.

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00:02:13:20 - 00:02:23:03

Steve Kennedy

Tell us what the last few weeks have been like. Playing in the U.S. Open, being one of the 20 amateurs and almost having a hole-in-one on Thursday on number 17. Just talk about the experience.

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00:02:23:07 - 00:02:52:12

Vaughn Harber

It started at the qualifier. I finished five under on the last five holes to get myself a spot in the playoff and ended up making it through. That was pretty cool, and pretty soon after that, a lot of stuff started happening quickly. Luckily, I had him in my corner, and my family and everyone were a lot of help. It was definitely a lot of stuff that I wasn't quite used to.

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00:02:52:13 - 00:03:22:03

Vaughn Harber

It was pretty hectic, but they made it super easy for me to just focus on golf, which is, I guess, what I'm best at. The whole experience was unbelievable. The way that all the amateurs and I were treated, it doesn't get better than that. The course was an extreme challenge, but it was a lot of fun to play and test my game against some of the best players in the world.

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00:03:22:05 - 00:03:35:06

Steve Kennedy

Coach Moseley, talk about your experience with players like Vaughn playing in a major. Was that a new experience for you, or was that old hat? Talk about that.

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00:03:35:10 - 00:03:44:20

Jay Moseley

The opportunity for a college amateur golfer to play in a U.S. Open, a major championship, is something that's really special and rare.

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00:03:44:20 - 00:04:02:20

Jay Moseley

It's a meaningful, significant experience for not only him, but his family, our program and his circle of support. So it's a really cool opportunity and a special moment that we want him to be able to capitalize on and make memories that he's going to remember for the rest of his life. And so it was really cool.

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00:04:02:22 - 00:04:12:17

Jay Moseley

I've certainly been blessed to have several other players, going back to Will Grimmer playing at Shinnecock in the 2018 U.S. Open when he was on our team, and then Maxwell Moldovan actually...

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00:04:12:19 - 00:04:20:05

Jay Moseley

...played in three while he was on the team at Ohio State. Neal Shipley played in the Masters and U.S. Open a couple of years back.

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00:04:20:05 - 00:04:47:18

Jay Moseley

It's certainly not a common occurrence, but we've been very fortunate to have some great players who have made their way through amateur and college golf and gone on to do some really special things. So, I was certainly very thankful that I'd had the previous experience at Shinnecock and some other U.S. Opens to know how to help him navigate it.

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00:04:47:18 - 00:05:00:19

Jay Moseley

If you think about it, Steve, he qualified for the U.S. Open on June 6, and he left to drive to Shinnecock on the 10th, I believe. So you've got...

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00:05:00:21 - 00:05:01:05

Steve Kennedy

Wow.

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00:05:01:06 - 00:05:11:14

Jay Moseley

...four days to put together logistics, travel, lodging, the whole thing. On top of that, it's being hosted in the Hamptons in the middle of June.

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00:05:11:14 - 00:05:35:04

Jay Moseley

So, you've got four days to really put this whole thing together, and that's a real challenge for someone on short notice. The other amateurs and pros who had exemptions and further anticipation of playing that event were certainly at an advantage. It was a little wild, but I think everything turned out really cool and special for him and his family.

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00:05:35:04 - 00:05:36:05

Steve Kennedy

No doubt.

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00:05:36:05 - 00:05:47:15

Steve Kennedy

And sticking with you, Coach, what did you see in Vaughn leading up to the U.S. Open that told you he was ready for this and ready to be on this stage?

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00:05:47:17 - 00:06:06:23

Jay Moseley

He's a really gifted athlete that we noticed in high school. He's got a long frame and has the ability to do some really special things with a golf club in his hands. We kind of knew he had a really high ceiling. That's kind of how we categorized him.

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00:06:07:00 - 00:06:32:16

Jay Moseley

The sky's the limit for a talent like him. And so there’s nothing that he's done that has surprised us because we felt like he had a real God-given talent and gift that he's been able to showcase while at Ohio State. Since our season wrapped up, I would even go back to May 12 when he played in his local qualifier. I've got a picture.

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00:06:32:16 - 00:06:52:02

Jay Moseley

Did you carry, or did you use a pushcart in the local qualifier, the first stage of qualifying? He's out there by himself with no caddie. A couple of guys are probably shooting 83 in this qualifier, and he goes out and is four under through eight.

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00:06:52:03 - 00:07:12:19

Jay Moseley

Five under through 12. He was just on a heater. He cruised through that, was the medalist at that qualifier and played great. Then he carried that right into the final qualifier at The Lakes, where he's playing against a lot of guys coming from Muirfield and the Memorial, and a lot of other great amateurs and professionals from all over.

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00:07:12:19 - 00:07:20:15

Jay Moseley

He had to be at his best on June 6 to punch one of those tickets to the U.S. Open.

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00:07:20:15 - 00:07:22:23

Steve Kennedy

You didn't try to use a pushcart at Shinnecock, did you?

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00:07:22:23 - 00:07:32:23

Vaughn Harber

No, I did not.

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Steve Kennedy

Who was on the bag for you?

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Vaughn Harber

It was my swing coach, John Yarbrough, whom I've been with for more than 10 years now.

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00:07:33:01 - 00:07:53:03

Vaughn Harber

The first time I met him was at the U.S. Kids State Championship at Avalon Lakes, and I could not hit a golf ball. I could not hit a shot. My dad happened to know who he was and saw him a couple of rows down on the range. He asked him, “Hey, is there any chance you could come look at my kid's swing and help him out?”

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00:07:53:03 - 00:07:58:03

Vaughn Harber

He came over and tried to put an alignment stick down...

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00:07:58:06 - 00:07:58:11

Steve Kennedy

Yeah.

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00:07:58:11 - 00:08:11:14

Vaughn Harber

...and I was hitting it even worse. Then he told me, “Just hit me a draw,” and I hit a draw. He said, “Hit me a fade,” and I hit a fade. I've been with him ever since. That's how we try to keep it simple and...

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00:08:11:17 - 00:08:11:23

Steve Kennedy

Yeah.

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00:08:12:04 - 00:08:12:18

Vaughn Harber

...stuff like that.

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00:08:12:18 - 00:08:22:21

Vaughn Harber

He was perfect. He'd actually caddied in a U.S. Open at Shinnecock before, in 2004, so he had some experience out there, which was extremely valuable.

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00:08:22:23 - 00:08:35:06

Steve Kennedy

That's a great guy to have on the bag. And before we get into it, we want to delve into mindset. We talk at VIUM Capital a lot about the “chop wood, carry water” mentality.

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00:08:35:06 - 00:08:52:07

Steve Kennedy

But before that, for people watching this, what's one story from that U.S. Open week that people wouldn't have necessarily seen on TV? I think you went viral with your near hole-in-one on 17 on Thursday, but what's one story people don't know?

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00:08:52:09 - 00:09:02:23

Vaughn Harber

I've got a couple, actually. The first one is that we stayed in a house about, what was it, five or six miles from the course?

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00:09:03:00 - 00:09:21:04

Jay Moseley

Yeah, five miles. 

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Vaughn Harber

When you plugged the drive into Maps, it was just over an hour at the peak of traffic because it's one way in and one way out on the island. We found out that we could get police escorts to the course. I got my first-ever police escort, which was pretty sweet.

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00:09:21:06 - 00:09:21:22

Steve Kennedy

That is awesome.

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00:09:22:00 - 00:09:23:13

Jay Moseley

On the proper side of it.

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00:09:23:14 - 00:09:39:23

Vaughn Harber

Yeah, exactly. That was pretty cool and definitely a new experience for me. At the house where we stayed, we had, I think, 12 to 15 people staying in three or four bedrooms. We had about six air mattresses blown up.

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00:09:40:07 - 00:09:41:00

Steve Kennedy

No way.

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00:09:41:02 - 00:09:45:23

Vaughn Harber

A ton of family and family friends made the trip to support.

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00:09:45:23 - 00:09:47:12

Vaughn Harber

So that was cool, too.

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00:09:47:16 - 00:09:48:12

Steve Kennedy

That is great.

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00:09:48:12 - 00:10:02:11

Steve Kennedy

Our joint venture partner, Merchants Capital, their CEO, Mike Dury, requires police escorts every time he goes to the office. So that’s ironic that you brought that up, but I digress. Let's get into the mental side.

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00:10:02:11 - 00:10:15:14

Steve Kennedy

When things aren't going well, because we all have that, even higher handicaps like myself, what do you do to get back to a sound mental state of mind?

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00:10:15:14 - 00:10:34:07

Vaughn Harber

I'm pretty good at staying levelheaded whether or not I'm playing well. Something he always says is, “You never really know when you're going to play your best golf.” So I always keep a positive mindset. Like you said, I think a lot of it is also about your preparation leading into it.

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00:10:34:08 - 00:10:48:01

Vaughn Harber

If you're not prepared and you start playing badly, there's nothing to fall back on, so you can't rely on anything there. But I’d say the biggest thing for me is making sure I'm prepared and always keeping a positive mindset and attitude, no matter what happens.

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00:10:48:04 - 00:11:14:09

Steve Kennedy

Good. Coach, as a head golf coach, you've had and continue to have great players like Vaughn and Neal Shipley. I know you're going to have a freshman, Mikey Pagnotto, St. Charles grad, joining the team. How do you teach consistency in a sport that sometimes feels so inconsistent?

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00:11:14:10 - 00:11:43:04

Jay Moseley

It's a challenge for a lot of 18-, 19- and 20-year-olds who are trying to figure out which way is up. It's like drinking out of a fire hose when they come to Ohio State. They're away from home for the first time, leaving the comfort of high school and their friend groups, and trying to figure out what their compass looks like, where their moral compass is and what their true north is.

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00:11:43:04 - 00:12:07:19

Jay Moseley

We talk a lot about identity and how these guys' identity is not in golf, because if it is, it's going to be a tough battle. I think habits are critical for these guys to build consistency in their routines, schedules and rituals, and to be consistent day in and day out.

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00:12:07:19 - 00:12:33:09

Jay Moseley

They do a really good job of buying in with their work ethic and not picking and choosing when they can fake it till they make it, so to speak. They've got to live, breathe, eat and sleep to encompass that total athlete we talk about at Ohio State. They have to be consistent in everything they do, especially the little things that really matter at this level.

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00:12:33:11 - 00:12:40:20

Steve Kennedy

Is that the mentality you think separates the good college golfers from the great ones?

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00:12:40:22 - 00:12:56:16

Jay Moseley

It definitely can be. Talent is a big piece of it, obviously, but elite players typically have something different about them. I think you've seen a lot documented about Jackson Koivun making his debut this week.

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00:12:56:17 - 00:13:17:06

Jay Moseley

These guys have played a lot around him and with him in tournaments. There's just something different about that kid when he shows up. He attracts a lot of attention, and rightfully so. He's earned the right to be the world's best amateur for a couple of years and has backed it up.

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00:13:17:06 - 00:13:32:06

Jay Moseley

We see that in a lot of our guys through the recruiting process. When vetting guys, we have that intuition about similar traits and characteristics that we feel will push them toward success.

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00:13:32:06 - 00:13:39:01

Steve Kennedy

I'll ask you one more question, and then I'll close with a question or two for Vaughn.

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00:13:39:03 - 00:13:49:09

Steve Kennedy

What excites you most about his future? He just finished his sophomore year and played in the U.S. Open. We'll talk a little bit about the U.S. Amateur coming up next month. What excites you about his future?

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00:13:49:13 - 00:14:09:17

Jay Moseley

I think his experience at the U.S. Open is going to open some floodgates and create some tremendous opportunities for him, because of his self-belief. Self-belief is something that's always there in guys.

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00:14:09:17 - 00:14:39:11

Jay Moseley

But until you start to validate it, there's usually a lag between performance and results. I'll use Neal Shipley as a big example. When Neal Shipley arrived at Ohio State, he was ranked around 1,400th in the world. He was an above-average college player at James Madison with consistent results, but he was not a well-known or well-thought-of college golfer.

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00:14:39:11 - 00:15:11:22

Jay Moseley

But he had proven himself as a legitimate college golfer, but certainly not All-American-type of results. But Neal had an incredible belief in himself, and he knew he was going to get there. It was just a matter of when. When Neal's play started to close that gap and he began getting 1% better week in, week out, month in, month out...

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00:15:11:22 - 00:15:36:11

Jay Moseley

...his self-belief pushed him through and helped him sustain those high performances. The U.S. Amateur run was not a fluke for him. He had a summer leading up to that and catapulted that into his senior year of college. He has gone on to earn his Tour card the hard way.

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00:15:36:13 - 00:16:05:12

Jay Moseley

He did not take the path you're seeing most college guys take now with PGA TOUR University and other opportunities. Neal did it the old-fashioned way, through his play. He's certainly a unique guy whom not only Vaughn, but a lot of guys can learn from and emulate. When they believe in themselves and start to validate that through their work and performances...

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00:16:05:15 - 00:16:23:23

Jay Moseley

...that's when the magic can really happen. That's what I see happening with him. It wouldn't surprise me whatsoever. Most of these guys would acknowledge that they can be their own worst enemies, but if he stays out of his own way, continues to believe in himself and just goes out and plays golf...

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00:16:23:23 - 00:16:50:07

Jay Moseley

...we talk about it all the time. We want him to take that 12- or 13-year-old mentality of going out, picking the pockets of the other middle schoolers and having fun, just being a kid trying to win a Coke on the putting green. That's the kid mentality and playfulness we want to see them play with, where they don't have the weight of expectations and anxiety, things that can really weigh you down if you let them.

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00:16:50:12 - 00:17:14:15

Steve Kennedy

That's great. Vaughn, just a couple of closing questions for you. First, how are you preparing for the U.S. Amateur at one of the best courses in the country, Merion, which is so storied in its history? This time, you've got time to prepare because you know you're playing. Unlike the U.S. Open, you're not suddenly in the Hamptons playing golf four days later.

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00:17:14:17 - 00:17:24:06

Steve Kennedy

They're not allowing you to use your pushcart, and you're getting escorted by police. This time, you've had time to prepare for the U.S. Amateur. What are you doing to prepare?

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00:17:24:08 - 00:17:30:08

Vaughn Harber

To be honest, nothing. Nothing different than I would do for any other tournament.

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Steve Kennedy

Just a lot of podcasts?

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00:17:30:10 - 00:17:59:08

Vaughn Harber

I guess so, yeah, podcast interviews.

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But no, just the same thing I always do. I like to find feels before tournaments, especially tournament rounds. Leading up to them, I like to spend a lot of time playing. I don't like to practice that much, to be honest. I don't like going to the range and hitting balls because it makes me think too much on the course. I try to be so perfect when I have sticks out or drills set up.

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00:17:59:08 - 00:18:10:18

Vaughn Harber

When I'm hitting it well and feel good, I like to play as much as I can and figure out how to get the ball in the hole the best way possible. I do a lot of that, play nine and try not to wear myself out too much.

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00:18:10:20 - 00:18:20:11

Steve Kennedy

Is there something you do to get those feels? I know what you mean, where you feel like you're in a groove and are just feeling the swing. Is there something you do, or does it just come to you?

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00:18:20:13 - 00:18:30:22

Vaughn Harber

I think it just comes, to be honest. I never look at videos of my swing or anything. I keep feeling things out until it works.

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00:18:30:22 - 00:18:42:18

Vaughn Harber

When it does work, I can normally keep it going pretty easily. I'd say it's a lot of feel for me. It comes after a while. If it's not there, I'll find it.

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00:18:42:18 - 00:18:44:06

Steve Kennedy

Yeah. Good.

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00:18:44:08 - 00:19:11:07

Steve Kennedy

This final question relates to what we and some of our listeners do. We hire young analysts coming out of college who are trying to find their way and become the best analysts possible. We work with senior living facilities where there might be a young RN learning his or her way, or maybe a young administrator.

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00:19:11:09 - 00:19:31:07

Steve Kennedy

You're a young guy, but you're operating in a pretty elevated environment, especially for your age. What advice might you give to a young analyst starting in the financing industry or a nurse starting at a nursing home who is trying to find their way?

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00:19:31:07 - 00:19:34:00

Vaughn Harber

I'd say lean back on what you've always done.

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00:19:34:01 - 00:19:43:13

Vaughn Harber

You're there for a reason. There’s no reason you should go after it with a fearful type of mindset. Just do what you've always done and lean back on your preparation.

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00:19:43:15 - 00:19:55:13

Steve Kennedy

I love it. Avoiding that fearful mindset and being confident based on your preparation is fantastic. I mentioned Chop Wood Carry Water, a book that all of our new folks read.

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00:19:55:13 - 00:20:20:18

Steve Kennedy

It's really about embracing where you are, embracing the grind and not looking too far forward until you master your craft. Once you master your craft, other people notice and want to take you to another level in the organization. You've clearly been doing that not only at Ohio State, but before that at St. Francis DeSales.

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00:20:20:18 - 00:20:37:23

Steve Kennedy

We're rooting for you in the U.S. Amateur, and we were really proud for you to wear the VIUM logo at the U.S. Open. We loved how, when you almost drained the hole-in-one, you turned back perfectly and the camera went right to the VIUM logo and your Titleist hat. It was perfect.

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00:20:38:01 - 00:20:41:03

Vaughn Harber

I appreciate you guys. Thank you for everything you've done.

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00:20:41:03 - 00:21:01:04

Steve Kennedy

The final question I ask everybody is whether you have a favorite book or podcast. I know Coach Moseley watches every podcast and always emails me afterward. He's like, “Man, that was inspiring.” But it can't be the VERSED podcast. What might be a book or podcast?

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00:21:01:05 - 00:21:29:20

Vaughn Harber

I don't listen to podcasts, so I can't give you a podcast. But I've gotten into reading a little bit with the team and Chet Scott, a founder of BTL, Built to Lead. He's recommended some books to us, but I found one on my own that I was reading, and I can't remember the name of it.

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00:21:29:21 - 00:21:41:13

Vaughn Harber

It's a David Goggins book, so it's more along the lines of mindset and how that can get you through tough times. I'd say that. I've tried to take some of that and apply it to how I approach golf.

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00:21:41:17 - 00:21:47:16

Steve Kennedy

That's great. Coach, is there a podcast or book you might recommend to listeners?

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00:21:47:21 - 00:21:55:07

Jay Moseley

Especially on the mindset side of things, there's a book we read called Mindset.

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00:21:55:11 - 00:22:21:21

Jay Moseley

I think that's Carol Dweck. It was a great book. It talks about the fixed versus growth mindset and was a powerful, insightful read. For podcasts, I'm a big fan of Brett McCabe. He's a sports psychologist in Birmingham, Alabama, who works with Alabama Athletics. He played baseball at LSU and works with several guys on the PGA TOUR.

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00:22:21:21 - 00:22:42:19

Jay Moseley

He's got a great podcast out there. We also read Fearless Golf, by Gio Valiante. It's a great read that you can eat up. Regardless of what level of golf you're at, it can have some really good nuggets in there.

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00:22:42:19 - 00:23:01:03

Jay Moseley

We've benefited greatly from Chet Scott and his work with Built to Lead. He's been a great mentor to me, and our guys really soak up the insightful work we put in through that BTL program, which several of the teams at Ohio State take advantage of. It's been great.

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00:23:01:05 - 00:23:07:01

Steve Kennedy

That's great. You're focused on mindset, not just the physical side, but also the mental side of any sport.

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00:23:07:02 - 00:23:10:02

Steve Kennedy

Golf has to be at the top of the list in terms of how important that is.

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00:23:10:02 - 00:23:17:21

Steve Kennedy

I'm very appreciative of both of you taking the time to participate in the VERSED podcast.

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00:23:17:21 - 00:23:24:23

Steve Kennedy

We'll be rooting for you at Merion, and we appreciate you sporting the VIUM Capital logo.

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00:23:24:23 - 00:23:26:19

Vaughn Harber

Of course. Thank you.

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00:23:27:00 - 00:23:52:09

Steve Kennedy

This is Steve Kennedy signing off. Thanks for tuning in to VERSED, powered by VIUM Capital. The conversation doesn't stop here. Let us know what topics you'd like to hear, and let's make an impact on seniors housing and healthcare together.

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